A New Level of Insanity
Reason # 8 million why my son will never attend a govt run indocrtination camp (i.e a “public school”)
Teachers drop the Holocaust to avoid offending Muslims
By LAURA CLARK - More by this author »Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Governmentbacked study has revealed.
It found some teachers are reluctant to cover the atrocity for fear of upsetting students whose beliefs include Holocaust denial.
There is also resistance to tackling the 11th century Crusades - where Christians fought Muslim armies for control of Jerusalem - because lessons often contradict what is taught in local mosques.
April 4th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Phew, it is a good thing you won’t let your children attend these schools. They are in London and the flights back and forth everyday would be expensive.
The Daily Mail is a London paper. The study was done about British schools.
I think it is a crime if the holocaust is not taught in history classes in Britain. I don’t think this is a problem in US schools though, who if I remember correctly still teach that as part of the history curriculum. Are there any stats to prove me wrong on that assumption about the US schools teaching this?
April 4th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
O, I also believe the armenian genocide, the complete facts about the Nazis killing all sorts of groups and the khmer rouge/Cambodian genocides should be taught as part of world history as well. Anyone know if those are taught now (they weren’t when I was in school).
April 5th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Optimist,
I was aware that this story came from England. I am also very well aware that there are many similarities between the govt run schools here in the US and England and was merely commenting on the insane politically correct “teaching” going on. There are a multitude of similar “insane” teachings in US govt run schools such as the “Muslim Day” in a California govt run school in which students dressed up in Muslim garb and read from the Koran as part of Multi-Culturalism/Diversity studies etc…that demonstrate that many of our govt run schools have become nothing less than tax payer funded indoctrination camps.
Gregg
April 5th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Interesting. Would you have a problem if a public school did an Easter day? Or if public schools did Christian prayers as part of a regular day? Just curious.
And I am really curious now about whether the holocaust is taught in public schools. Does anyone know? I assume it is.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
O,
What does your hypothetical about “Easter Day” -whatever that is- have to do with my post? Kind of a non sequiter don’t you think? Not getting the relationship.
And, why would you ask if I had a “problem” with public schools “doing Christian prayers” in a govt run school? What does that have to do with my post?
The main point of my post was that it is rediculous that a public school in the Western World in England is not teaching about the Holocaust because it might be “offensive” to Muslims who deny that the Holocaust ever happened. That to me is insane and indicative of the multi-culti (to quite our friend Mark Steyn)mind-set that is destroying Western Civilization. So why the hypotheticals about “Easter Day” etc? Not really understanding your implied connection between the main thrust of my post and your hypothetical question.
Gregg
April 5th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Optimist,
also puzzled by your question:
“O, I also believe the armenian genocide, the complete facts about the Nazis killing all sorts of groups and the khmer rouge/Cambodian genocides should be taught as part of world history as well. Anyone know if those are taught now (they weren’t when I was in school).”
The “complete facts about the Nazi killings” were not taught when you were a kid? Really? so you were not taught about the Holocaust? And how do you reconcile your recollection that it was not taught in school with your first statement that:
“I don’t think this is a problem in US schools though, who if I remember correctly still teach that as part of the history curriculum. ”
On one hand the you remember the Holocuast being taught but a few comments later don’t remember being taught about it?
Gregg
Gregg
April 5th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
It’s interesting that a person using a story about a ridiculous policy in London schools to attack the US school system is bending over backwards to imagine inconsistencies in the Optimist’s argument.
We know you want to home-school your kids– we get it.
By the way, could you detail the other 7,999,999 reasons? I’m curious. Backed up with empirical data of course.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Oh- and so you don’t accuse me of not directing my comments precisely to the argument at hand– the “Easter Day” reference is in direct response to your “Muslim Day” comment. If you want to see the relevance, it’s pretty easy.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
I thought the reference to his Muslim day thought was pretty obvious too. O well. Its okay, I didn’t expect Gregg to answer my questions anyway.
As for Holocaust teachings in school not being complete, I was taught in several classes about the Jewish genocide. I was not taught about the systematic murder of homosexuals, the disabled, gypsies and Jehovah’s witnesses. I have read in several places that an additional 4-5 million people were killed beyond the 6 million Jewish deaths. I always thought that teaching about those groups should have been just as important. That is what I meant. Good try on finding a gotcha moment in my posts though.
And I agree with you that it is a crime that British schools aren’t teaching the holocaust. I just don’t see that it has any relevance to US schools, and don’t see it as a sign of the collapse of Western civilization.
Hopefully you understand my questions I posed above. If you have a problem with Muslim Day, would you also have a problem with the two scenarios I presented. Now shock me and answer them.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
And before you try to get me on the “why are you asking if the holocaust is taught in US schools if you remember it being taught.” I went to high school in the 1980s. Things may have changed. I am curious.
April 6th, 2007 at 10:13 am
To answer your thoughtful questions Terry and Doug, I think that a govt school sponsoring a “Muslim Day” where students dress up like Muslims and read from the Koran is insane. How much more clear can I be than that. I am assuming you concur with my assessment.
And Easter is celebrated in our country in our public schools as evidenced by the fact that we designate a holiday recess in recognition of it. So again, I don’t understand the relevance of your question. Are you implying that an Easter recess is on the same level as “Muslim Day where students read from the Koran?”
Also, of course I would have a “problem” with any school making students recite any prayer of any faith. I am assuming your question is primarily rhetorical. And I would oppose any mandated prayer in the same way that I would oppose students from having to read out of the Koran as part of a general “multicultural” education. Do you understand the distinction?
And I never said that I was going to “homeschool” my children only that I would not send them to a govt run “public school.” which is my perogative. My main point in the post was to point out how govt run schools in the “West” both in England and in the U.S. are engaging in some pretty insane politically correct “teachings.” And I think that the example I cited was a pretty good illustration of that. Perhpas US schools are teaching the Holocaust (for now anyways), but I know that over the years our history has been significantly revised. One need only examine current history text books to see the many changes with regard to how our history is presented vs how it was presented 50 years ago.This can be empirically demonstrated. And it is obvious to me that the humanist left has revised history for their own narrow ideological purposes. (mostly to replace the traditional Judeo-Christian worldview with the secular humanist paradigm).
I think that about sums it up.
Enjoy your Easter! Be blessed.
Gregg
April 6th, 2007 at 11:23 am
Thanks for the answers back. Although I will admit surprise that you do not support prayer in schools. I actually don’t mind the idea of teaching about other cultures, as long as they do not exclude cultures (which leads to the problem of how much time and where do you draw the line. Although I am sure Tongan culture is cool, there is not enough time in the year to dedicate a day to it.) I had a history teacher who taught me about shintoism and buddhism as part of a history class to help better understand Japan during World War II. It was much better than just reading a text book.
And I think you would be surprised at the curriculum of history in public schools. I took the history teaching accredidation exam a couple of years ago (out of curiosity and as a backup in case the tech bubble bursting continued), and it was focused on pretty much exactly what we were taught in the 70s and 80s. The teachers may have changed, but the text books and curriculum didn’t seem to be.
Go grab some of those new history text books. They look and feel like the old ones.
April 6th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
o,
With all due respect I never said:
“that I did not support prayer in schools.” So please don’t distort my statements. I of course support voluntary prayer not “mandatory” prayer. That is what I said I was oppposed to.And I was not talking about teaching about “cultures.” I said I was opposed to kids having to take mandatory multiculturalism classes in Islam and being forced to read out of the Koran- a clear 1st Amendment violation. I think that we have sucked out as much life out of this one as possible.take care.
Gregg
April 6th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
This is the first time I heard of this “Muslim Day” event in Public schools. I googled this and found it to be prominently on Right Wing sites. Worldnet Daily for example says:
“The course mandates that seventh-graders learn the tenets of Islam, study the important figures of the faith, wear a robe, adopt a Muslim name and stage their own jihad. Adding to this apparent hypocrisy, reports ANS, students must memorize many verses in the Koran, are taught to pray “in the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful” and are instructed to chant, “Praise to Allah, Lord of Creation.”
The Tenets of Islam. Last time I checked a basic history course outlines the 5 pillars and when I went through the public school system in MA there was a whole section dedicated to Christianity as well. I was in the 6th grade though when that was brought up. Students just read over the pillars and move on. They go to break it down into its specifices.
The only important firgures they teach in the public schools when it comes to Islam is the Prophet Muhammad, his cousin Ali and maybe the 1st Caliph, Abu Bakr. They might mention the Prophet’s 1st wife, Khadijah, to whom he was married for 25 years in a monogamous relationship. I don’t persume they go deeper than that, well they didn’t when I was there in the early 90’s.
Why wear a robe? This is more stereotypical than reflective of Islam. I don’t recall a day when I even wore robe, well maybe when I home and out of the shower.
Adopt a Muslim name? Role playing is good. I had to adopt an Native American name when we studied about how the good white Christian presecuted the Native Americans and dispossesed them of their lands, took them in slavery, butchered them, infected them w/ diseases, forced religion on them etc But I guess Gregg will deny that those great Patriots never did that and it is nothing but Liberal Revision of history…lol
Stage their own Jihad? Again the concept of Jihad is brought up. Allah tells us in the Holy Quran:
2:190 And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressors.
Gregg probably loves to quote 9:5 though:
9:5 So when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters, wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free. Surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Leopard Weiss aka Muhammad Asad, a Jewish convert to Islam, in his translation and commentary of the Holy Quran entitled “The Message of the Quran” explains this verse as follows:
“As I have pointed out on more than one occasion, every verse of the Qur’an must be read and interpreted against the background of the Qur’an as a whole. The above verse, which speaks of a possible conversion to Islam on the part of “those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God” with whom the believers are at war, must, therefore, be considered in conjunction with several fundamental Qur’anic ordinances. One of them, “There shall be no coercion in matters of faith” (2:256), lays down categorically that any attempt at a forcible conversion of unbelievers is prohibited - which precludes the possibility of the Muslims’ demanding or expecting that a defeated enemy should embrace Islam as the price of immunity.
Secondly, the Qur’an ordains, “Fight in God’s cause against those who wage war against you; but do not commit aggression, for, verily, God does not love aggressors” (2:190); and, “if they do not let you be, and do not offer you peace, and do not stay their hands, seize them and slay them whenever you come upon them: and it is against these that We have clearly empowered you [to make war]” (4:91). Thus, war is permissible only in self-defence (see surah 2, notes 167 and 168), with the further proviso that “if they desist-behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace” (2:192), and “if they desist, then all hostility shall cease” (2:193). Now the enemy’s conversion to Islam - expressed in the words, “if they repent, and take to prayer [lit., "establish prayer"] and render the purifying dues (zakah)”-is no more than one, and by no means the only, way of their “desisting from hostility”; and the reference to it in verses 5 and 11 of this surah certainly does not imply an alternative of “conversion or death”, as some unfriendly critics of Islam choose to assume. Verses 4 and 6 give a further elucidation of the attitude which the believers are enjoined to adopt towards such of the unbelievers as are not hostile to them. (In this connection, see also 60:8-9).”
What verses are the kids being made to memorize? Oh and did they forget to tell the kids that per classical teachings of Islam, the Holy Quran is “untranslable” and can only be truly understood in Arabic? Why else would all Muslim’s pray in Arabic irrespective of their ethnicity? The Translations available are only of the “purported” meanings and don’t constitute the Holy Quran itself. The Arabic language is too rich and complex to fully express in translation.
Even the Holy Quran states:
12:2 Surely We have revealed it — an Arabic Quran — that you may understand.
13:37 And thus have We revealed it, a true judgment, in Arabic. And if thou follow their low desires after that which has come to thee of knowledge, thou wouldst have against Allah no guardian nor protector.
So these kids in the Cali. public school are being done a disservice because they are getting half truths.
As-Salam Alaykum
April 6th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
And about the issue of the Holocaust being taught, there is no problem w/ this but as Optimist singled it out we shouldn’t forget about the other millions who also perished because of the Nazi regime. Michael Savage whom I believe everyone on here knows expresses in his book “The Savage Nation” that about 7 million Christians also died during the Holocaust. Nazi teachings focused on racism, ethnocenticism, paganism and brute force. When the issue is being taught in public schools, I believe the teachers should stress the vile philosophy of the Nazis to make it relevant to students that such ideals must be opposed for our own security no matter in what form or shape it may arise.
I don’t understand why a Muslim would be offended about a teaching of the Holocaust.